Who would be best matchup for Trump?
#21
 x 0 x 0
(Yesterday, 09:46 PM)Etrius24 Wrote:  I did not write these articles Shady...

Please tell me you understand this.

So if I post articles talking about the economy up to 2 months ago... That is not me cherry picking.

Unless you can find the same article with the same criteria written for statistics up to today????


Every number in the article I posted regarding the stock market shows it performing much better under Obama than trump

So instead of talking about the stock market you go back to the unemployment rate... (Which is all you ever do. ) And you accuse the author of the article of cherry picking.


That is not cherry picking you fucking idiot.

The author of the article did not cherry pick anything.

Now it is apparent you do not understand what cherry picking is...

What a surprise you throwing out yet more terms and ideas that you do not understand.


I just explained to you ... trumps stock mkt numbers are better even within first 3 years - you are too much of an idiot to understand it. Obama sucked any way you slice it
#22
 x 0 x 0
(Yesterday, 06:11 PM)apollo04 Wrote:  
(Yesterday, 04:55 PM)Etrius24 Wrote:  Quote from article:

When it comes to talking himself up, Trump in particular has compared himself to Barack Obama. So, how do the two presidents measure up in terms of growth in major indexes, measured between their inauguration and May 31 of their third year in office?

The short answer is that Trump has quite a way to go. Under Obama, the S&P 500 grew by 56.4%. The Dow Jones Industrials Average was up 50.6% and the Nasdaq, 92.9%.

The numbers under Trump were 21.4% for the S&P 500, 25.2% for the Dow, and 34.2% for Nasdaq.

Shady?????

LYING ETRIUS ...
  #1)  So we are counting 1st 3 years under Obama, not how he left the country in last 3 years?
  #2)  If we are counting 1st 3 years ... should we count Obama's unemployment rate in 1st 3 years?  Around 8% or 9% lol?  3.7% unemployment is better than 8% ... even bernie bros should get it
 #3)  Why would you pick till May 31st?   Did Etrius sleep through June and july?    DOW is up lot more than 25% since Trump took office.
  #4)  Why do you want to steal 13% return from Trump - those return came after Trump won election - where as right before that Obama stock market was flat for 11 months.  ... 

Obama 1st 3 years (full calendar years) - DOW was up around 38% - if you don't try to rig the numbers and cherry pick a random month.  And Trump so far is 34% up (with about 5 months to go) ... despite.  And i didn't even count the 13% or so DOW move up right after he got elected for the nov-dec 2016.  All of that on top of:
     - taking 6 rate hikes
     - heavy tariffs to resolve trade issue
     

No matter how you measure it .... Trump beats Obama in every category when it comes to economy/stock market

Barry just sucked at economy - no way to hide it

since Etrius didn't get the memo .... lol - E is losing his mind, anyway he slices it, Trump comes ahead lol
#23
 x 0 x 0
(Yesterday, 11:15 PM)apollo04 Wrote:  I just explained to you ... trumps stock mkt numbers are better even within first 3 years - you are too much of an idiot to understand it.   Obama sucked any way you slice it

You realize the spike this week was because the Fed is threatening to lower interest rates, right? If the Fed were doing the right thing and continuing to raise interest rates it wouldn't be over 27,000 right now. Trump is using the Obama trick of lowering interest rates to spike the market which is sad and disgusting. It was pathetic of Obama to hold interest rates so low and is even more pathetic of Trump who has shown an understanding of basic economic principles. I hold Trump to a much higher standard on the economy, because Obama was economically illiterate so his bad decisions were expected. Trump is economically literate so him doing things wrong is actually an issue.

I liken to to Clinton causing the housing bubble. Clinton was too economically stupid to know what he was doing. Baby Bush continued the policies for the same reasons. Neither listened to the banks when they warned them about the policy, granted by the time Bush got into office it was too late to prevent a massive correction, but he could have ended the policies and lessened the blow. However, when Obama put the policies back in place he did so knowing what they lead to and for that he is an idiot who started another cycle with the intent of wiping out another generation of wealth from the lower and middle class just like the first housing burst did.
#24
 x 0 x 0
(Today, 01:00 AM)Kizzfastfists Wrote:  
(Yesterday, 11:15 PM)apollo04 Wrote:  I just explained to you ... trumps stock mkt numbers are better even within first 3 years - you are too much of an idiot to understand it.   Obama sucked any way you slice it

You realize the spike this week was because the Fed is threatening to lower interest rates, right? If the Fed were doing the right thing and continuing to raise interest rates it wouldn't be over 27,000 right now. Trump is using the Obama trick of lowering interest rates to spike the market which is sad and disgusting. It was pathetic of Obama to hold interest rates so low and is even more pathetic of Trump who has shown an understanding of basic economic principles. I hold Trump to a much higher standard on the economy, because Obama was economically illiterate so his bad decisions were expected. Trump is economically literate so him doing things wrong is actually an issue.

I liken to to Clinton causing the housing bubble. Clinton was too economically stupid to know what he was doing. Baby Bush continued the policies for the same reasons. Neither listened to the banks when they warned them about the policy, granted by the time Bush got into office it was too late to prevent a massive correction, but he could have ended the policies and lessened the blow. However, when Obama put the policies back in place he did so knowing what they lead to and for that he is an idiot who started another cycle with the intent of wiping out another generation of wealth from the lower and middle class just like the first housing burst did.

You realize the spike this week was because the Fed is threatening to lower interest rates, right? 

LOL  Fed bank is "threatening" us now?   What on earth you talking about?   The market was up in June as well ... that was the largest gain in june in something like 50 some years.

So if  Fed threatening to cut rate caused market to go up (which it certainly goes up) ... you got to agree those 6 rate hike Trump admin took certainly held back stock market from going up right?  Those 6 cuts or level that Obama enjoyed for last 3-4 years before Obama left office.  Essentially proving my point - Obama handed over a stagnant stock market to Trump, and as soon as he won market shot up.

If Fed does not cut - with China de-valuing currency, EU holding low rate - tough for US to compete.  

Don't agree lower rate (but still fair bit higher now then Obama years) - is same as Clinton era housing bubble.  When politician/activist force banks to hand out large mortgage to people who cannot afford it - that's a different issue.   For me not a whole lot of difference in that situation whether mortgage rate is 3% vs 5% ... the main issue is someone say taking loan of $500K when they cannot afford it.
#25
 x 0 x 0
I have repeatedly said the artificially low interest rates of Clinton and Obama hurt the economy and artificially rose the market. Are you ignoring the century of data that proves this? As interest rates rise the market slows and will stop for spurts for guaranteed short-term investing income as opposed to the risk of the market. Especially when certain economic indicators are in place. By keeping the interest rate low you make the stock market the only game to play and thus force people looking for a ROI to play that roulette wheel.

China is only allowed to devalue our currency because we have given them that power through out debt! Trump hasn't done anything to cut debt so he isn't preventing China's currency manipulation. Until he refuses to sign any budget without a surplus for reducing the debt he is enabling China despite his trade war rhetoric.

Interest rates should be rising steadily at about .33% a quarter until a minimum of 5% then continue going up to at .25% a quarter to 8% then .15% a quarter to 10%. Yes, that will take a long time to get to the 10% it needs to be back at, but that will also prevent a massive dump of the stock market and just slow dips with recovery.

Of course the other problem is that if they raise the rate while they keep the Obama lending regulations in place it will lead to a crash. Just like it did when baby Bush pushed interest rates up with the Clinton lending regulations in place. Which is why we will have another crash in a few years because some President will realize the middle class thrives with a higher interest rate, but they will ignore the lending regulations being destructive to that historical trend and when they raise rates with the current forced lending it will cause a crash. Trump may realize this and that is why he is keeping interest rates lower than he should instead of just fixing the lending regulations and then doing a slow increase. If the lending regulations were fixed then the lower interest rate would not be as harmful and the slow raising of the rate would give the consumer adjustment time. However, since the lending regulations are being ignored it is highly unlikely that Trump has any clue about them or he thinks he can manipulate it to his advantage come re-election time like Clinton and baby Bush both did.
#26
 x 1 x 0
Getting back on topic, regardless of what the polls say.  Not one Democratic candidate can beat Trump right now.  They might be better off bringing Hillary back.  Hillary for President with Michelle Obama as Vice President.  HA Ha

What is going to destroy them is the fact that their own party has an infighting problem that will probably get worse before it gets better.
"Do not correct a fool, or he will hate you; correct a wise man and he will appreciate you." ~PROVERBS 9:8



#27
 x 0 x 0
(4 hours ago)Dr_Pitbull Wrote:  Getting back on topic, regardless of what the polls say.  Not one Democratic candidate can beat Trump right now.  They might be better off bringing Hillary back.  Hillary for President with Michelle Obama as Vice President.  HA Ha

What is going to destroy them is the fact that their own party has an infighting problem that will probably get worse before it gets better.

Trump needs to keep the economy/stock mkt going for 18 more months - that gives him a good shot & easiest path.  Plus avoid major conflict internationally.   I think Iran or someone else definitely will try - that impacts election, and if they want Trump out - helps them out if they start a conflict and hope Dem takes WH.
#28
 x 0 x 0
(4 hours ago)Kizzfastfists Wrote:  I have repeatedly said the artificially low interest rates of Clinton and Obama hurt the economy and artificially rose the market. Are you ignoring the century of data that proves this? As interest rates rise the market slows and will stop for spurts for guaranteed short-term investing income as opposed to the risk of the market. Especially when certain economic indicators are in place. By keeping the interest rate low you make the stock market the only game to play and thus force people looking for a ROI to play that roulette wheel.

China is only allowed to devalue our currency because we have given them that power through out debt! Trump hasn't done anything to cut debt so he isn't preventing China's currency manipulation. Until he refuses to sign any budget without a surplus for reducing the debt he is enabling China despite his trade war rhetoric.

Interest rates should be rising steadily at about .33% a quarter until a minimum of 5% then continue going up to at .25% a quarter to 8% then .15% a quarter to 10%. Yes, that will take a long time to get to the 10% it needs to be back at, but that will also prevent a massive dump of the stock market and just slow dips with recovery.

Of course the other problem is that if they raise the rate while they keep the Obama lending regulations in place it will lead to a crash. Just like it did when baby Bush pushed interest rates up with the Clinton lending regulations in place. Which is why we will have another crash in a few years because some President will realize the middle class thrives with a higher interest rate, but they will ignore the lending regulations being destructive to that historical trend and when they raise rates with the current forced lending it will cause a crash. Trump may realize this and that is why he is keeping interest rates lower than he should instead of just fixing the lending regulations and then doing a slow increase. If the lending regulations were fixed then the lower interest rate would not be as harmful and the slow raising of the rate would give the consumer adjustment time. However, since the lending regulations are being ignored it is highly unlikely that Trump has any clue about them or he thinks he can manipulate it to his advantage come re-election time like Clinton and baby Bush both did.

Current fed short term rate is 2.5%.  People who borrows money they cannot pay back - it wont make any difference whether it is 2.5% vs. 5% - most of these people have no idea what rates they're paying.  As i mentioned before, the problem is not the interest rates - if you take $500K loan that you cannot pay back - the issue is the principal amount of loan you're allowed to borrow.


You are NUTS to think you can get to 10% interest rate - it'll crash entire economy.  Why on earth people will invest anywhere - if you can get guaranteed 10% rate of return lol?  Long term stock mkt return is around 10% (if you're lucky) - so there wont be any reason for anyone to put money into stock market.  

If you want to crash the system, and become Venezuela .. sure go to 10% .. while China, EU & everyone else takes all your business.
#29
 x 0 x 0
I'm bit surprised though ... I stated in OP .. let's take biden out of picture - he wont make it. NOT ONE WORD from Etrius lol. I can see it in E's posts - even Etrius knows biden is done - he has no shot. Back in 2016 - Etrius would've made like 50 posts defending Bernie .... I guess it is good for him, not keeping up with a false hope.
#30
 x 0 x 0
(3 hours ago)apollo04 Wrote:  You are NUTS to think you can get to 10% interest rate - it'll crash entire economy.  Why on earth people will invest anywhere - if you can get guaranteed 10% rate of return lol?  Long term stock mkt return is around 10% (if you're lucky) - so there wont be any reason for anyone to put money into stock market.  

If you want to crash the system, and become Venezuela .. sure go to 10% .. while China, EU & everyone else takes all your business.

Please tell me that Reagan was terrible and his economy sucked. That is all you need to do to validate your belief in that statement. The interest rate during Reagan's Presidency, in which the market boomed, remained above 9% and was as high as 20%. So please tell me that Reagan crashed the economy, had terrible economic principles and we should do the opposite of what he did. 

Either that or pull your head out of your ass, read a few macro econ books and a few econ history books and form an educated opinion instead of regurgitating nonsense. Either the economy is healthy and the market will grow and stocks will boom or the economy has issues and the market needs to be propped up by artificially low interest rates. Pick ONE. It can not be both. You can not claim the economy is healthy and then claim that an interest rate hike will destroy a good economy.

The stock market is NOT an indicator of overall market health. It is an indicator that those invest are getting a ROI. It is not an indicator the average person is prospering. Higher interest rates help the average person more than a booming stock market. Of course, in order to understand that you would have understand economics on both a micro and macro level and all you can do is regurgitate "stock market up" and "unemployment down" with no real discussion about the factors leading to those things happening. 
#31
 x 0 x 0
(3 hours ago)Kizzfastfists Wrote:  
(3 hours ago)apollo04 Wrote:  You are NUTS to think you can get to 10% interest rate - it'll crash entire economy.  Why on earth people will invest anywhere - if you can get guaranteed 10% rate of return lol?  Long term stock mkt return is around 10% (if you're lucky) - so there wont be any reason for anyone to put money into stock market.  

If you want to crash the system, and become Venezuela .. sure go to 10% .. while China, EU & everyone else takes all your business.

Please tell me that Reagan was terrible and his economy sucked. That is all you need to do to validate your belief in that statement. The interest rate during Reagan's Presidency, in which the market boomed, remained above 9% and was as high as 20%. So please tell me that Reagan crashed the economy, had terrible economic principles and we should do the opposite of what he did. 

Either that or pull your head out of your ass, read a few macro econ books and a few econ history books and form an educated opinion instead of regurgitating nonsense. Either the economy is healthy and the market will grow and stocks will boom or the economy has issues and the market needs to be propped up by artificially low interest rates. Pick ONE. It can not be both. You can not claim the economy is healthy and then claim that an interest rate hike will destroy a good economy.

The stock market is NOT an indicator of overall market health. It is an indicator that those invest are getting a ROI. It is not an indicator the average person is prospering. Higher interest rates help the average person more than a booming stock market. Of course, in order to understand that you would have understand economics on both a micro and macro level and all you can do is regurgitate "stock market up" and "unemployment down" with no real discussion about the factors leading to those things happening. 

- The reason Regan managed to get good economy - he brought down the rate from 20% to around 9%

- You need to pull your head out of your rear - and read and understand modern economics.  Low interest rate allows smaller business to open up - allows REGULAR people to borrow money, open business and create jobs. 

-  You have very naive view of stock market.   When it is healthy - it more than likely means companies are doing well - lots of money being invested, and creating jobs.  It is not about just index value going up - it expands companies/economy and indication of overall health.  One indicator out of several, but very important indicator .

Yes there maybe other issues - but those issues would be even worse with a down stock market.  

With 10% interest rate, NO ONE WOULD BOTHER WITH STOCKS ... so kiss thousands and thousands of companies goodbuy .. and everyone hoping somehoe magically Fed would pay them 10%.

-  Pains me that I have to even explain this - all things being equal - you ALWAYS want lower unemployment rate & healthy stock market.  It is a no brainier.

It is like saying  - Do you prefer to have $0 dollar in bank or $10K?  With $10K - sure you can hit a bad event .. but it is lot better to hit a bad event with $10K in your bank vs. $0.
#32
 x 0 x 0
Kizz

Reagan had his problems... He showed us what the break even point was with tax cuts in terms of them paying for themselves... In his second term he started raising tax rates back up.

Reagan also stole 2.7 trillion dollars from Social security... That is back in 1985 money!!! ( Under the guidance of greenspan. )

So the economy was strong
Interest rates were high

But Reaganomics was a scam in that you cannot cut taxes at the top and have wealth trickle down. We have has almost 40 years to see it does not work... At all.

Reagan turned this country into a borrower ... When he took office the USA was the leading creditor nation in the world. When he left office we were the lead borrower.

So when we look back at Reagan we need to look at the good and the bad... Reagan spent out of control and he grew the government. It was when Reagan left office I understood that the republican mantra of fiscal responsibility was just horseshit... Everyone on the right looks to Reagan as the greatest president ever.... He never tried to minimise the size of government... He never tried to balance a budget. He stole trillions from social security to fund his wars... And he got celebrated for it.
I might not change the world, but I sure won't ever let it change me. P.S.
#33
 x 0 x 0
(2 hours ago)Etrius24 Wrote:  Kizz

Reagan had his problems... He showed us what the break even point was with tax cuts in terms of them paying for themselves... In his second term he started raising tax rates back up.

Reagan also stole 2.7 trillion dollars from Social security... That is back in 1985 money!!!  ( Under the guidance of greenspan. )

So the economy was strong
Interest rates were high

But Reaganomics was a scam in that you cannot cut taxes at the top and have wealth trickle down.  We have has almost 40 years to see it does not work... At all.

Reagan turned this country into a borrower ... When he took office the USA was the leading creditor nation in the world.  When he left office we were the lead borrower.

So when we look back at Reagan we need to look at the good and the bad... Reagan spent out of control and he grew the government.  It was when Reagan left office I understood that the republican mantra of fiscal responsibility was just horseshit... Everyone on the right looks to Reagan as the greatest president ever.... He never tried to minimise the size of government... He never tried to balance a budget.  He stole trillions from social security to fund his wars...  And he got celebrated for it.

No mention of Obama who took national debt from $10T to $20T?  Single handedly piled on more debt than all other previous POTUS Combined?  
#34
 x 0 x 0
Shady

You are not addressing the issues of my posts... you just deflect to something else.

I show how Reagan put us on the path to be the largest debtor in the world... and then you reply...

But Obama

Before Reagan we were the Number 1 creditor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

After Reagan we were the number 1 debtor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

Try to stay on topic.


When talking about Reagan... His tax rates... his economic policies... Please try to talk about Reagan...

Not Obama..

Do you ever have anything to actually contribute?

I mean other than what you memorised from Fox and friends.
I might not change the world, but I sure won't ever let it change me. P.S.
#35
 x 0 x 0
(2 hours ago)Etrius24 Wrote:  Shady

You are not addressing the issues of my posts... you just deflect to something else.

I show how Reagan put us on the path to be the largest debtor in the world... and then you reply...

But Obama

Before Reagan we were the Number 1 creditor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

After Reagan we were the number 1 debtor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

Try to stay on topic.


When talking about Reagan... His tax rates... his economic policies... Please try to talk about Reagan...

Not Obama..

Do you ever have anything to actually contribute?

I mean other than what you memorised from Fox and friends.

lol Master Troller  who doesn't know the 3 branches of govt, up till yesterday didn't know what separation of church/state means  & I had to explain it to him - asking if I have anything to contribute?
#36
 x 0 x 0
(42 minutes ago)apollo04 Wrote:  
(2 hours ago)Etrius24 Wrote:  Shady

You are not addressing the issues of my posts... you just deflect to something else.

I show how Reagan put us on the path to be the largest debtor in the world... and then you reply...

But Obama

Before Reagan we were the Number 1 creditor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

After Reagan we were the number 1 debtor nation in the world.

Nothing about Barack Obama changes that.

Try to stay on topic.


When talking about Reagan... His tax rates... his economic policies... Please try to talk about Reagan...

Not Obama..

Do you ever have anything to actually contribute?

I mean other than what you memorised from Fox and friends.

lol Master Troller  who doesn't know the 3 branches of govt, up till yesterday didn't know what separation of church/state means  & I had to explain it to him - asking if I have anything to contribute?

The title of the thread is who would be the best match up for Trump?  Why is Etrius changing the subject?  He then accuses others of deflecting...
"Do not correct a fool, or he will hate you; correct a wise man and he will appreciate you." ~PROVERBS 9:8





Forum Jump:


Users browsing this thread: sheets316, 2 Guest(s)