Carmelo Trade Update
6 hours ago,
#41
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(Yesterday, 01:51 AM)Are We There Yet Wrote:  
(Yesterday, 01:34 AM)jcharding Wrote:  My understanding is he an UFA, and he may simply want to be with his college coach more than the extra year/money for Utah would induce staying.

Its going to be really amusing when Melo gets traded for very little, which is what he is worth, and then watching many of you go bananas blaming Phil for not getting more (which again IMHO isn't realistic).

Why would that amuse you? Melo is not worth much? How little are you talking? In a league where Mozgov lands two first round picks I'm sure Melo has some value. Not to mention addition by subtraction having value.

Limited bidders due to NTC

Limited bidders due to salary

Age

Injury history increasing

Remember, when Mozgov was traded he was making $4.6m and was 28. He didn't have a NTC so the entire NBA could try.  Melo, on the other hand, only has about 2-3 realistic destinations and they all know we want to move on.

If Phil gets a random useful  player and something like the 15th pick we should be ecstatic. Simple supply and demand. And demand, and eligible bidders, is very low.
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4 hours ago,
#42
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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Supply vs. Demand?  The supply of players the Celtics could get that could without argument score 20 or more a game for them is quite small.  Maybe 5 players...max.

Then you argue that Melo is making too much money and that would hinder interest, but any player they sign to do what Melo does would without argument be paid more.

Age-Is what it is.

NTC- You seem to think Melo holds all the cards, but he doesn't.  Bring him off the bench and it's a new ball game.  He would freak out if be backed up someone, wouldn't last a week.  This one I am 100% on.

Bottom line, I am not saying you don't take that offer, but you have to ask for more.  I am not going to do what you did and pick examples to make my case, even though I easily could.

Melo is a big time player, with some mileage.  But if you need someone to score, which the Celtics do, he's a pretty damn good option.  

Would Ainge trade Jaylen Brown and Marcus Smart for Carmelo, perhaps, but they went what 3rd and 6th (guess), so Ainge's draft picks have not been stellar and that is certainly in the back of his mind.

That's why the Nets pick 2018 and Memphis 2019 is a not as far fecthed as you made it out to be.

Yeah they could get Gordon Haywood, but I doubt he leaves Utah where he is the man.


 


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4 hours ago,
#43
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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Melo is the 9th highest paid player in the NBA. Yes, salary is an issue.

If Melo is still on the roster next year that would be an utter disaster, so bringing him off the bench to piss him off isn't a choice. Because then you would be in limbo for another half season. Major trades like that early in the season are very rare.

I'd be more willing to buy your counter supply vs demand argument if not for the idea that Melo's days as a 20PPG player are rapidly dwindling. Plus there are other guys who are or will be available.

There is no way that the Celtics are trading premium assets for Melo. Shizzee level pipe dream.
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4 hours ago, (This post was last modified: 4 hours ago by carmelo.)
#44
Carmelo Trade Update
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Steve Nash at 37 years old was traded for 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks.

Garnett and Pierce at 36 years old got 3 first round picks and a pick swap.

Don't give me that Melo's too old. He averaged 22/6/3 last year and was an all-star.


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4 hours ago,
#45
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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Gordon Haywood in Boston is a real threat. Not sure how much he is about the money in Utah or, playing for his old coach but, he would be a good fit there.

I'm not even going to try to guess what Phil does this summer.

No clue how much Boston is interested in Melo but, there are reports saying they were interested. I don't like any package LAC can offer and I don't think Cleveland can do any better. Not sure there are any other teams Melo would consider that are interested in him.

Going to be a long couple of months when you throw in waiting for lottery, waiting for FA, waiting for draft and, waiting to see what happens with Melo. Also praying we don't bring Rose back.
VIVA la TANK!!
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3 hours ago,
#46
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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Who are these other players that are available?  Think about how many 20 point scorers switch teams, not many.  Looking at the top 20 NBA scorers this year, only Durant and Cousins.  

Flippant answers like, I am sure they will after Haywood, are not realistic and are the real pipe dreams here.  I would bet he stays in Utah, where he will probably get 150 mil guaranteed and is the main man on a good young team.

Other options are Durant and Curry... I would say no to them going to Boston. Who else, well they could give Paul Milsap 150 mil, then again he's 32 so no. Another option is Gallinari or Serge Ibaka, but past that group it drops quickly.

They really do not have a lot of options, so if I were Phil I would not drop the price.  He can get the Net and Memphis picks in the summer after they strike out on the free agents.  Free agency is the pipe dream here.  Wait I just saw LeBron looking at houses in Westchester, LOL

I think you are speaking generally, and I am speaking specifically so it would help if you would not be so vague on who these other players are

  


 


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2 hours ago,
#47
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(3 hours ago)Dr_Pitbull Wrote:  Who are these other players that are available?  Think about how many 20 point scorers switch teams, not many.  Looking at the top 20 NBA scorers this year, only Durant and Cousins.  

Flippant answers like, I am sure they will after Haywood, are not realistic and are the real pipe dreams here.  I would bet he stays in Utah, where he will probably get 150 mil guaranteed and is the main man on a good young team.

Other options are Durant and Curry... I would say no to them going to Boston. Who else, well they could give Paul Milsap 150 mil, then again he's 32 so no. Another option is Gallinari or Serge Ibaka, but past that group it drops quickly.

They really do not have a lot of options, so if I were Phil I would not drop the price.  He can get the Net and Memphis picks in the summer after they strike out on the free agents.  Free agency is the pipe dream here.  Wait I just saw LeBron looking at houses in Westchester, LOL

I think you are speaking generally, and I am speaking specifically so it would help if you would not be so vague on who these other players are

  

amen amen well said

   

  "P Y P" pick your poison Beckham,cruz or shepard



                                                        
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2 hours ago,
#48
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(4 hours ago)carmelo Wrote:  Steve Nash at 37 years old was traded for 2 first round picks and 2 second round picks.

Garnett and Pierce at 36 years old got 3 first round picks and a pick swap.

Don't give me that Melo's too old. He averaged 22/6/3 last year and was an all-star.


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thank you thank you

   

  "P Y P" pick your poison Beckham,cruz or shepard



                                                        
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2 hours ago,
#49
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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gordon hayward is not leaving utah for boston go pahk the cahr lol

   

  "P Y P" pick your poison Beckham,cruz or shepard



                                                        
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2 hours ago, (This post was last modified: 2 hours ago by jcharding.)
#50
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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I gave specific historical examples a couple weeks ago using basketball reference as a starting point, and you blew me off. I'm pretty sure it involved Rashard Lewis and another guy.

And Doc you are talking out of both sides of your mouth. On the one hand you consistently talk about how Melo is a terrible teammate, how nobody wants to play with him, and how hard it is to win with him, and simultaneously you are talking about how Boston and others are going to give up high draft picks for him.

All you are doing is setting up yourself for more anti Phil arguments when Phil trades Melo for what other teams actually view him as - which you have already adequately described.
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2 hours ago,
#51
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  I gave specific historical examples a couple weeks ago using basketball reference as a starting point, and you blew me off. I'm pretty sure it involved Rashard Lewis and another guy.

Your arguments work well with less informed people.  There is history with Lewis and Howard Schultz that makes that an anomaly.  I mean I could give many examples too, but don't find that to be worthy in a debate.  I also think the comparisons to Carmelo were way off.  


 


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2 hours ago,
#52
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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20 PPG scorers who may be available include Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Gordon Heyward, Paul George, Bradley Beal (maybe), CJ McCollum (Portland often doesn't believe he and and Lilliard can play together long term), Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas, Goran Dragic and maybe Boogie Cousins. All have been available in the past year and likely still are.
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2 hours ago,
#53
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)Dr_Pitbull Wrote:  
(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  I gave specific historical examples a couple weeks ago using basketball reference as a starting point, and you blew me off. I'm pretty sure it involved Rashard Lewis and another guy.

Your arguments work well with less informed people.  There is history with Lewis and Howard Schultz that makes that an anomaly.  I mean I could give many examples too, but don't find that to be worthy in a debate.  I also think the comparisons to Carmelo were way off.  

Oh and in regards to Carmelo being a bad teammate.  He is.  It's impossible to build around him.  But would Boston be building around him?  Ugh No they wouldn't.  Therein lies the difference.

So I am right again. 

Put Melo on a good team that is already constructed and ask him to score and he will.  But he should never be your leader, and forget about building around him


 


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2 hours ago,
#54
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)Dr_Pitbull Wrote:  
(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  I gave specific historical examples a couple weeks ago using basketball reference as a starting point, and you blew me off. I'm pretty sure it involved Rashard Lewis and another guy.

Your arguments work well with less informed people.  There is history with Lewis and Howard Schultz that makes that an anomaly.  I mean I could give many examples too, but don't find that to be worthy in a debate.  I also think the comparisons to Carmelo were way off.  

No, they work very well, you are just anti statistical analysis so you reject the framework.  Boston, however, is pretty statistically oriented.
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2 hours ago,
#55
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  20 PPG scorers who may be available include Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Gordon Heyward, Paul George, Bradley Beal (maybe), CJ McCollum (Portland often doesn't believe he and and Lilliard can play together long term), Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas, Goran Dragic and maybe Boogie Cousins. All have been available in the past year and likely still are.

They should sign Isiah Thomas, LOL  Where are you cutting and pasting this from?


 


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2 hours ago,
#56
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  20 PPG scorers who may be available include Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Gordon Heyward, Paul George, Bradley Beal (maybe), CJ McCollum (Portland often doesn't believe he and and Lilliard can play together long term), Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas, Goran Dragic and maybe Boogie Cousins. All have been available in the past year and likely still are.

ANd no I am not making stuff up.  For example McCollum was on the trade block from December through the deadline.

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2017/02/trail_blazers_trade_rumors_portland_getting_jusuf.html

http://www.oregonlive.com/blazers/index.ssf/2017/01/nerlens_noel_cj_mccollum_trade.html

http://ripcityproject.com/2016/12/17/case-trading-cj-mccollum/

http://www.nba.com/blazers/forwardcenter/trade-deadline-rumors-disheartening-not-especially-worrisome-blazers/
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2 hours ago,
#57
RE: Carmelo Trade Update
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(2 hours ago)Dr_Pitbull Wrote:  
(2 hours ago)jcharding Wrote:  20 PPG scorers who may be available include Brook Lopez, Blake Griffin, Eric Bledsoe, Gordon Heyward, Paul George, Bradley Beal (maybe), CJ McCollum (Portland often doesn't believe he and and Lilliard can play together long term), Jimmy Butler, Isiah Thomas, Goran Dragic and maybe Boogie Cousins. All have been available in the past year and likely still are.

They should sign Isiah Thomas, LOL  Where are you cutting and pasting this from?

Nowhere.  I read a lot, and there has been a lot of chatter that Boston doesn't think they will stay with him long term and might move on from him this offseason. So all I did was go through the list of 20 PPG scorers and compile a list of people who had serious rumors lately.
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